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	<title>Comments on: How to kill (bad) PR</title>
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		<title>By: 100 PR and Marketing Articles You've Probably Missed in 2010</title>
		<link>http://www.newsvetter.com/2010/04/09/how-to-kill-bad-pr/comment-page-1/#comment-588</link>
		<dc:creator>100 PR and Marketing Articles You've Probably Missed in 2010</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Sep 2010 12:33:32 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] How to kill (bad) PR [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] How to kill (bad) PR [...]</p>
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		<title>By: MyPRMatch.com &#124; Blog &#124; The Internet Says PR is Bad</title>
		<link>http://www.newsvetter.com/2010/04/09/how-to-kill-bad-pr/comment-page-1/#comment-470</link>
		<dc:creator>MyPRMatch.com &#124; Blog &#124; The Internet Says PR is Bad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jun 2010 19:27:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newsvetter.com/?p=2478#comment-470</guid>
		<description>[...] major take away, especially from Andrew Fowler’s “How to Kill (Bad) PR,” is that we all talk the talk, but not everyone walks the walks. As someone who has taken great [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] major take away, especially from Andrew Fowler’s “How to Kill (Bad) PR,” is that we all talk the talk, but not everyone walks the walks. As someone who has taken great [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Janelle Huelsman @janellehuelsman</title>
		<link>http://www.newsvetter.com/2010/04/09/how-to-kill-bad-pr/comment-page-1/#comment-346</link>
		<dc:creator>Janelle Huelsman @janellehuelsman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Apr 2010 17:24:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newsvetter.com/?p=2478#comment-346</guid>
		<description>Great post, Andrew!

As a student, many of my non-PR major classmates at Ohio University&#039;s E.W. Scripps School of Journalism roll their eyes whenever PR is mentioned. The sole reason for this is that they are often mistake these PR &quot;schmucks&quot; for PR professionals. Unfortunately, because of that misconception, those same students are often unwilling to take PR courses or to learn more about the field. I certainly feel as though if PRSA could continue working toward a better definition of what PR encompasses--especially with the advent of social media--and incorporated that into the APR, the accreditation process could be held to a higher standard and taken more seriously.

However, as PR has dramatically changed in just the last four years I&#039;ve been a student, it&#039;s difficult to predict the future for an ever-evolving and ever-changing field. Here&#039;s hoping that some sort of licensing or accreditation is given more pull in the future.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post, Andrew!</p>
<p>As a student, many of my non-PR major classmates at Ohio University&#8217;s E.W. Scripps School of Journalism roll their eyes whenever PR is mentioned. The sole reason for this is that they are often mistake these PR &#8220;schmucks&#8221; for PR professionals. Unfortunately, because of that misconception, those same students are often unwilling to take PR courses or to learn more about the field. I certainly feel as though if PRSA could continue working toward a better definition of what PR encompasses&#8211;especially with the advent of social media&#8211;and incorporated that into the APR, the accreditation process could be held to a higher standard and taken more seriously.</p>
<p>However, as PR has dramatically changed in just the last four years I&#8217;ve been a student, it&#8217;s difficult to predict the future for an ever-evolving and ever-changing field. Here&#8217;s hoping that some sort of licensing or accreditation is given more pull in the future.</p>
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		<title>By: JillPR</title>
		<link>http://www.newsvetter.com/2010/04/09/how-to-kill-bad-pr/comment-page-1/#comment-345</link>
		<dc:creator>JillPR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Apr 2010 14:16:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newsvetter.com/?p=2478#comment-345</guid>
		<description>I HATE those &quot;PR people suck&quot; posts that PR people forward around. I always think &quot;why are you using your influence to basically say we&#039;re useless and dumb?&quot; I&#039;ve been guilty of that on a couple occasions too, but I quickly realized it didn&#039;t help anyone&#039;s perception of me or my industry to tweet about posts that diss PR (unless they&#039;re a self-improvement angle).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I HATE those &#8220;PR people suck&#8221; posts that PR people forward around. I always think &#8220;why are you using your influence to basically say we&#8217;re useless and dumb?&#8221; I&#8217;ve been guilty of that on a couple occasions too, but I quickly realized it didn&#8217;t help anyone&#8217;s perception of me or my industry to tweet about posts that diss PR (unless they&#8217;re a self-improvement angle).</p>
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		<title>By: Jenny S. (@cloudspark)</title>
		<link>http://www.newsvetter.com/2010/04/09/how-to-kill-bad-pr/comment-page-1/#comment-343</link>
		<dc:creator>Jenny S. (@cloudspark)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Apr 2010 20:50:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newsvetter.com/?p=2478#comment-343</guid>
		<description>Andrew - finally, you said it.  PR has a tendency to do a lot of &quot;navel gazing&quot; and a lot of agonizing over &quot;getting a seat a the table.&quot;  As someone who came into PR without a PR background (international business, then a career in marketing) I found all this fretting over the credibility of the channel, the value of the counsel/tactics to be rather shocking. PR works when practiced by skilled, savvy pros.  

I, however, don&#039;t believe we need Master&#039;s degrees or more certifications. We need PR to be taught in business schools. Period. 

While PR requires the skill, craft of writing well, it&#039;s the only business discipline not taught in a business school. It&#039;s no wonder that PR folks have a confidence crisis about their perceived value and fret over not being at the table with other business pros.  Without a business background, they may not even understand the conversation at the table or how PR as a tactic and communication as a strategy can positively impact company, brand and bottom line.

Thanks for a post to push all of us into the conversation. Much appreciated. Jenny</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Andrew &#8211; finally, you said it.  PR has a tendency to do a lot of &#8220;navel gazing&#8221; and a lot of agonizing over &#8220;getting a seat a the table.&#8221;  As someone who came into PR without a PR background (international business, then a career in marketing) I found all this fretting over the credibility of the channel, the value of the counsel/tactics to be rather shocking. PR works when practiced by skilled, savvy pros.  </p>
<p>I, however, don&#8217;t believe we need Master&#8217;s degrees or more certifications. We need PR to be taught in business schools. Period. </p>
<p>While PR requires the skill, craft of writing well, it&#8217;s the only business discipline not taught in a business school. It&#8217;s no wonder that PR folks have a confidence crisis about their perceived value and fret over not being at the table with other business pros.  Without a business background, they may not even understand the conversation at the table or how PR as a tactic and communication as a strategy can positively impact company, brand and bottom line.</p>
<p>Thanks for a post to push all of us into the conversation. Much appreciated. Jenny</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Penning, APR</title>
		<link>http://www.newsvetter.com/2010/04/09/how-to-kill-bad-pr/comment-page-1/#comment-342</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Penning, APR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Apr 2010 20:45:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newsvetter.com/?p=2478#comment-342</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m late to respond, and concur with all of the above. In essence, bad PR will always exist because it is a broad field and hard to control.

The causes of bad PR are at two levels--the practitioner and the organization. Most bad examples can be traced back to individuals with no education (either formal degree, seminar, or working with a savvy PR supervisor). Sometimes organizational hierarchy, context, view of the PR function etc etc can limit PR. Also, &quot;encroachment&quot; by other functions gives a bad name to &quot;PR&quot; when it&#039;s not being done by it--e.g. lawyers as spokespersons, marketers writing news releases like brochure copy etc.

I conclude by pointing out that Edward Bernays made an impassioned plea to license public relations near the end of his life--I believe it was in 2002 at the Association of Educators in Journalism and Mass Communication (AEJMC) conference. His reason was that too many &quot;schmucks&quot; were entering the field and giving it a bad name. But licensing never got far because it is too hard to define, too cumbersome to enforce, and too restrictive on an ever expanding field.

So, I just teach my students well and work with other educators and practitioners to &quot;enhance the profession.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m late to respond, and concur with all of the above. In essence, bad PR will always exist because it is a broad field and hard to control.</p>
<p>The causes of bad PR are at two levels&#8211;the practitioner and the organization. Most bad examples can be traced back to individuals with no education (either formal degree, seminar, or working with a savvy PR supervisor). Sometimes organizational hierarchy, context, view of the PR function etc etc can limit PR. Also, &#8220;encroachment&#8221; by other functions gives a bad name to &#8220;PR&#8221; when it&#8217;s not being done by it&#8211;e.g. lawyers as spokespersons, marketers writing news releases like brochure copy etc.</p>
<p>I conclude by pointing out that Edward Bernays made an impassioned plea to license public relations near the end of his life&#8211;I believe it was in 2002 at the Association of Educators in Journalism and Mass Communication (AEJMC) conference. His reason was that too many &#8220;schmucks&#8221; were entering the field and giving it a bad name. But licensing never got far because it is too hard to define, too cumbersome to enforce, and too restrictive on an ever expanding field.</p>
<p>So, I just teach my students well and work with other educators and practitioners to &#8220;enhance the profession.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Bill Sledzik</title>
		<link>http://www.newsvetter.com/2010/04/09/how-to-kill-bad-pr/comment-page-1/#comment-340</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Sledzik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Apr 2010 14:29:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newsvetter.com/?p=2478#comment-340</guid>
		<description>Not sure Dr. Russell and I disagree all that much. While I&#039;m a staunch advocate for more education to enhance professionalism in PR, I wouldn&#039;t want to see it become mandatory. 

Near the end of his life, Ed Bernays, frustrated over the evolution of public relations, actually became an advocate for licensing PR practitioners. But with licensing comes the need for government regulation. And with that comes 1st Amendment questions that pretty stop the discussion in its tracks. It ain&#039;t gonna work.

I will say this: Some of the very best PR pros I have worked for an with over the years didn&#039;t have PR degrees -- or degrees in any related field. One came from English lit, another from philosophy, another from political science, and so on. 

But it only takes one trip to a news-release distribution website to see that a whole lot of nonprofessionls are in charge of producing PR messages, many of them marketers who treat  PR materials as they do advertising copy. Poorly written fluff reflects on all of us. 

To Karen&#039;s other point, where we also agree...

In a recent blog post, I talked about the opportunities in PR for those willing to represent fringe groups and causes. Karen is right, too often these are assignments that &quot;trained PR&quot; types reject. Too bad, as it&#039;s important work that requires a commitment beyond what any corporate or agency PR person ever has to make. 

I also see an unwillingness of PR majors to pursue careers in nonprofit because of the lower salaries. I guess when you have a pile of college loans, it&#039;s hard to appreciate the psychic rewards!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not sure Dr. Russell and I disagree all that much. While I&#8217;m a staunch advocate for more education to enhance professionalism in PR, I wouldn&#8217;t want to see it become mandatory. </p>
<p>Near the end of his life, Ed Bernays, frustrated over the evolution of public relations, actually became an advocate for licensing PR practitioners. But with licensing comes the need for government regulation. And with that comes 1st Amendment questions that pretty stop the discussion in its tracks. It ain&#8217;t gonna work.</p>
<p>I will say this: Some of the very best PR pros I have worked for an with over the years didn&#8217;t have PR degrees &#8212; or degrees in any related field. One came from English lit, another from philosophy, another from political science, and so on. </p>
<p>But it only takes one trip to a news-release distribution website to see that a whole lot of nonprofessionls are in charge of producing PR messages, many of them marketers who treat  PR materials as they do advertising copy. Poorly written fluff reflects on all of us. </p>
<p>To Karen&#8217;s other point, where we also agree&#8230;</p>
<p>In a recent blog post, I talked about the opportunities in PR for those willing to represent fringe groups and causes. Karen is right, too often these are assignments that &#8220;trained PR&#8221; types reject. Too bad, as it&#8217;s important work that requires a commitment beyond what any corporate or agency PR person ever has to make. </p>
<p>I also see an unwillingness of PR majors to pursue careers in nonprofit because of the lower salaries. I guess when you have a pile of college loans, it&#8217;s hard to appreciate the psychic rewards!</p>
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		<title>By: Karen Russell</title>
		<link>http://www.newsvetter.com/2010/04/09/how-to-kill-bad-pr/comment-page-1/#comment-339</link>
		<dc:creator>Karen Russell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Apr 2010 00:18:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newsvetter.com/?p=2478#comment-339</guid>
		<description>Although the educator in me pretty much always wants everyone to get more schooling, in this case I don&#039;t think it&#039;s the solution. It might help at the micro level, meaning it could improve individuals&#039; behavior among the kind of paid professionals I assume you&#039;re talking about. But it falls apart at the social level. In fact, I disagree with Bill and argue that &quot;no barriers to entry&quot; although frustrating at times is actually a positive thing in a democratic society.

One of the primary justifications for the existence of PR is that we help make sure all people get a fair hearing in the marketplace of ideas. As it stands now, big institutions that support that status quo (federal government, big corporations, etc.) already have an unfair advantage in that marketplace because they can afford to hire professional public relations advisers. In the case of the legal bar in the U.S., all clients get representation -- if nothing else, through public defenders. There is no equivalent --no public opinion defenders-- at the bar of public opinion. If you try to eliminate amateurs, who&#039;s left to advocate for radical or unpopular causes? I absolutely agree with Ike that someone else shouldn&#039;t get to decide who you can or cannot hire to represent or advocate for you in public discussion.

Accreditation and educational requirements could be used to create a specially-titled kind of PR person, but they wouldn&#039;t stop ordinary (paid or unpaid) citizens from advocating for causes, ideas, candidates, etc., and often doing it badly. It&#039;s messy, but it&#039;s part of the deal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Although the educator in me pretty much always wants everyone to get more schooling, in this case I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s the solution. It might help at the micro level, meaning it could improve individuals&#8217; behavior among the kind of paid professionals I assume you&#8217;re talking about. But it falls apart at the social level. In fact, I disagree with Bill and argue that &#8220;no barriers to entry&#8221; although frustrating at times is actually a positive thing in a democratic society.</p>
<p>One of the primary justifications for the existence of PR is that we help make sure all people get a fair hearing in the marketplace of ideas. As it stands now, big institutions that support that status quo (federal government, big corporations, etc.) already have an unfair advantage in that marketplace because they can afford to hire professional public relations advisers. In the case of the legal bar in the U.S., all clients get representation &#8212; if nothing else, through public defenders. There is no equivalent &#8211;no public opinion defenders&#8211; at the bar of public opinion. If you try to eliminate amateurs, who&#8217;s left to advocate for radical or unpopular causes? I absolutely agree with Ike that someone else shouldn&#8217;t get to decide who you can or cannot hire to represent or advocate for you in public discussion.</p>
<p>Accreditation and educational requirements could be used to create a specially-titled kind of PR person, but they wouldn&#8217;t stop ordinary (paid or unpaid) citizens from advocating for causes, ideas, candidates, etc., and often doing it badly. It&#8217;s messy, but it&#8217;s part of the deal.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Laermer</title>
		<link>http://www.newsvetter.com/2010/04/09/how-to-kill-bad-pr/comment-page-1/#comment-338</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Laermer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Apr 2010 18:20:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newsvetter.com/?p=2478#comment-338</guid>
		<description>I think that when someone writes a blog post about making the PR world a better place (and ridding it of the awful PR practitioners who mess it up for the good ones), a lot of people who do PR in the worst possible way sit there shaking their head: &quot;Yeah, THOSE PEOPLE are so awful.&quot;  So, Andrew, instead of complaining about bad PR (which I could do every single day I&#039;ve got so much material in my in-box), what Kevin and I with Bad Pitch is show rather than merely tell who&#039;s awful out th ere. Then for giggles we say what they did that was wrong in case it&#039;s not obvious, which it usually is.
You say: &quot;Hopefully a new generation of better trained PR pros will surface and eventually replace them.&quot; I could not agree more. 
And Bad Pitch 2.0 (sorry to have to use &quot;2.0&quot; but it really is an upgrade) will be, as Kev said, a shout-from-the-rooftops manner to help the Next Generation get some no-BS learning before those truly yucky habits are established. 
And here&#039;s the shocking thing: Kevin and I are doing the upcoming seminars out of the goodness of our hearts, which I&#039;m not necessarily known for (he is, by the way).
If you got it, flaunt it, right? And we possess a lot. See, over the last five years we&#039;ve learned more than we ever thought we would from PR folks and journalists who have took time from their overcrowded days to share their pain via email, tweets, Facebook status updates, IMs and even a few pieces of actual snail mail..
Starting this year we&#039;re going to teach the newbies how not to become a victim of bad behavior and maybe in some cases simply ignore their ignorant bosses or supervisors or &quot;peers&quot; (quotes mine).
If you want to learn more about what we&#039;re doing, tweet @laermer or @prblog and we&#039;ll clue you in. Happy Saturday.
Now get back to work!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that when someone writes a blog post about making the PR world a better place (and ridding it of the awful PR practitioners who mess it up for the good ones), a lot of people who do PR in the worst possible way sit there shaking their head: &#8220;Yeah, THOSE PEOPLE are so awful.&#8221;  So, Andrew, instead of complaining about bad PR (which I could do every single day I&#8217;ve got so much material in my in-box), what Kevin and I with Bad Pitch is show rather than merely tell who&#8217;s awful out th ere. Then for giggles we say what they did that was wrong in case it&#8217;s not obvious, which it usually is.<br />
You say: &#8220;Hopefully a new generation of better trained PR pros will surface and eventually replace them.&#8221; I could not agree more.<br />
And Bad Pitch 2.0 (sorry to have to use &#8220;2.0&#8243; but it really is an upgrade) will be, as Kev said, a shout-from-the-rooftops manner to help the Next Generation get some no-BS learning before those truly yucky habits are established.<br />
And here&#8217;s the shocking thing: Kevin and I are doing the upcoming seminars out of the goodness of our hearts, which I&#8217;m not necessarily known for (he is, by the way).<br />
If you got it, flaunt it, right? And we possess a lot. See, over the last five years we&#8217;ve learned more than we ever thought we would from PR folks and journalists who have took time from their overcrowded days to share their pain via email, tweets, Facebook status updates, IMs and even a few pieces of actual snail mail..<br />
Starting this year we&#8217;re going to teach the newbies how not to become a victim of bad behavior and maybe in some cases simply ignore their ignorant bosses or supervisors or &#8220;peers&#8221; (quotes mine).<br />
If you want to learn more about what we&#8217;re doing, tweet @laermer or @prblog and we&#8217;ll clue you in. Happy Saturday.<br />
Now get back to work!</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Sommermeyer</title>
		<link>http://www.newsvetter.com/2010/04/09/how-to-kill-bad-pr/comment-page-1/#comment-337</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Sommermeyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Apr 2010 15:54:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newsvetter.com/?p=2478#comment-337</guid>
		<description>I think we just kill them, literally. 

Just kidding! 

Public relations about making connections and sometimes there is just not one good way to do that. Press releases might work for one group and fail for another. Talking on the phone (whoa, who&#039;s this dumbass?) might work in another instance. It&#039;s not about streamlining and finding the optimum solution. It&#039;s about thinking about how to reach an audience. Currently I work with a lot of audiences on a multitude of subjects (generalist) but soon may be focused on publicizing the efforts of a single group (specialist). I will have to adapt. That is the main thing PR must concentrate on; adaptation to new paradigms and tactics as they arise. And, most importantly, cultivating relationships along the way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think we just kill them, literally. </p>
<p>Just kidding! </p>
<p>Public relations about making connections and sometimes there is just not one good way to do that. Press releases might work for one group and fail for another. Talking on the phone (whoa, who&#8217;s this dumbass?) might work in another instance. It&#8217;s not about streamlining and finding the optimum solution. It&#8217;s about thinking about how to reach an audience. Currently I work with a lot of audiences on a multitude of subjects (generalist) but soon may be focused on publicizing the efforts of a single group (specialist). I will have to adapt. That is the main thing PR must concentrate on; adaptation to new paradigms and tactics as they arise. And, most importantly, cultivating relationships along the way.</p>
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